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simon
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Posted -
2003/4/29 下午 11:13:45
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很多人把天國想像成一個絕對快樂的地方。我有點懷疑。
從聖經得到的印象，天主也有不快樂，甚至大怒的時候。如果天主也會不快樂，他的國度，又怎可能絕對快樂？
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Augustine
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Posted -
2003/4/30 下午 01:41:25
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By The authority of St. Thomas, from the Summa: First Part of the Second Part
Question 5
Article 5
Question: Whether man's happiness consists in the vision of the divine essence?
Objection 1. It would seem that man's happiness does not consist in the vision of the Divine Essence. For Dionysius says (Myst. Theol. i) that by that which is highest in his intellect, man is united to God as to something altogether unknown. But that which is seen in its essence is not altogether unknown. Therefore the final perfection of the intellect, namely, happiness, does not consist in God being seen in His Essence.
Objection 2. Further, the higher the perfection belongs to the higher nature. But to see His own Essence is the perfection proper to the Divine intellect. Therefore the final perfection of the human intellect does not reach to this, but consists in something less.
On the contrary, It is written (1 Jn. 3:2): "When He shall appear, we shall be like to Him; and [Vulg.: 'because'] we shall see Him as He is."
I ANSWER THAT, Final and perfect happiness can consist in nothing else than the vision of the Divine Essence. To make this clear, two points must be observed. First, that man is not perfectly happy, so long as something remains for him to desire and seek: secondly, that the perfection of any power is determined by the nature of its object. Now the object of the intellect is "what a thing is," i.e. the essence of a thing, according to De Anima iii, 6. Wherefore the intellect attains perfection, in so far as it knows the essence of a thing. If therefore an intellect knows the essence of some effect, whereby it is not possible to know the essence of the cause, i.e. to know of the cause "what it is"; that intellect cannot be said to reach that cause simply, although it may be able to gather from the effect the knowledge of that the cause is. Consequently, when man knows an effect, and knows that it has a cause, there naturally remains in the man the desire to know about the cause, "what it is." And this desire is one of wonder, and causes inquiry, as is stated in the beginning of the Metaphysics (i, 2). For instance, if a man, knowing the eclipse of the sun, consider that it must be due to some cause, and know not what that cause is, he wonders about it, and from wondering proceeds to inquire. Nor does this inquiry cease until he arrive at a knowledge of the essence of the cause.
If therefore the human intellect, knowing the essence of some created effect, knows no more of God than "that He is"; the perfection of that intellect does not yet reach simply the First Cause, but there remains in it the natural desire to seek the cause. Wherefore it is not yet perfectly happy. Consequently, for perfect happiness the intellect needs to reach the very Essence of the First Cause. And thus it will have its perfection through union with God as with that object, in which alone man's happiness consists, as stated above (1,7; 2, 8).
Reply to Objection 1. Dionysius speaks of the knowledge of wayfarers journeying towards happiness.
Reply to Objection 2. As stated above (1, 8), the end has a twofold acceptation. First, as to the thing itself which is desired: and in this way, the same thing is the end of the higher and of the lower nature, and indeed of all things, as stated above (1, 8). Secondly, as to the attainment of this thing; and thus the end of the higher nature is different from that of the lower, according to their respective habitudes to that thing. So then in the happiness of God, Who, in understanding his Essence, comprehends It, is higher than that of a man or angel who sees It indeed, but comprehends It not.
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edward
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Posted -
2003/5/1 下午 03:46:36
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這就視乎你所說的「天國」是指甚麼。
若天國是指天堂，則按定義來說──你已經進入了永恆，永遠和天主在一起。除了天主之外，你不再需要甚麼，所以並沒有任何憂慮的事。
若天國是指在地上開始的信仰生活，則我們仍有各種各樣的客觀需要和限制，你仍受著財赤和非典型肺炎的影響，故此仍有不少憂慮──儘管主耶穌要我們學習把心思放在天父的慈愛，「不要憂慮！」。對天主越信靠，則越少憂慮。
還記得聖女大德籣的「書籤」嗎？
「不再有憂慮，不再有害怕；與主在一起，甚麼都不缺……」
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simon
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Posted -
2003/5/1 下午 08:27:43
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我說的天國，是死後和天主一起。
我的疑惑是天主也有不快樂的時後（如聖經上的描述），即使和祂結合，似乎也應分擔祂的難過。
Simon
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edward
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Posted -
2003/5/1 下午 10:55:46
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天主是不變的，但喜怒哀樂卻是情緒上的變化。
聖經所述天主的「義怒」和「喜悅」，往往是相對於人類對天主的態度而言。這會不會是一種啟示上的「擬人法」呢？
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simon
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Posted -
2003/5/2 下午 04:48:58
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Dear Edward,
According to you, God is constant no matter what we do. So even if I leave God and join the devil, God will not feel unhappy at all.
Is that what you mean?
Simon
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edward
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Posted -
2003/5/3 上午 12:53:25
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If we think deeper: Does God have a nerve so as to "feel" in our sense of happiness and anger? And can God break into tears?
造物主與受造物之間的關係中，變動的是受造物，但造物主本身是不變的。人犯罪是違反了本性的規律，「其咎自招」的。從理性的角度言：當我犯罪時，天主並不因此而「嬲怒」，是我自己偏離了作為受造物的本分而與天主疏遠。
不是太陽在我們的頭上運轉，而是我們在地球上、圍繞著太陽轉。
然而，天主按其本質所沒有的情緒、愛慾，卻在主耶穌的身上有──祂有血有肉，憐憫眾人。這個道理，實在難明啊！
不過，基督因著祂的復活，祂的肉身已被光榮了。但祂在現世的肢體，則仍有「感受」的能力。這也許「要待一切都完成」後，才有一個了斷吧？
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